1.) Christian Kane originally auditioned for the role of Riley on BTVS. He didn't get that part, but producers like him so much he was offered the role of Lindsey on ATS. (Sounds cool.)
2.) David Fury had originally wrote a much darker script for Season One Episode Two. The script had Kate taking drugs and being a prostitute, while Angel licked blood off of a murder victim. It was later changed to "Lonely Hearts." (I know this is true, I saw some Kate pics and skimmed the script. Though I believe the part about Angel licking blood was supposed to be in City Of.)
3.) Doyle's death was planned in advance, and Glenn Quinn knew the role would be short term going in. (I heard this and David Fury saying something else. Fury is usually known for being honest to the point others try to censor him. Though he could have been mistaken.)
4.) Joss Whedon's portrayal of Numfar during the Pylean saga was kept a big secret initially. The only ones that knew where David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, David Boreanaz, and a few key makeup people.
5.) Waiting in the Wings was created after Amy Acker mentioned to Joss Whedon that she used to be a ballerina. There was even an extra ballet scene filmed in which Wesley and Fred replaced the leads. (True, it was talked about on the DVD with the deleted scene where they dance in Wesleys' daydream.)
6.) The character of Gwen Raiden was originally supposed to debut in "Deep Down."
7.) The episode "Players" contains several hidden dirty jokes.
8.) The producers had originally planned for Cordelia to wake up and kill Jasmine in the next to last episode of season four, but plans where changed after Charisma suffered complications during childbirth, and her doctor wouldn't release her to do any physicality. (I would have liked this better. It let's the victim avenge herself.)
9.) In "Awakening," the reason Angel said "Buffy" was because he had said it the two previous times he switched from Angel to Angelus, and Angelus to Angel on BTVS. (Thank you, that's what I always assumed.)
10.) The C/A ship was killed off because it was unpopular with the fans. (Not sure how true this is. In certain forums it is very popular. Even if it wasn't Greenwalt said he didn't care if it was going to be, he knew they were doing the right thing. Also they said that they knew Riley/Buffy was not popular but kept it anyway. I think it was the actors' choice to leave the show.)
11.) Originally there was not going to be a Jasmine character in Season Four. Cordelia was just going to be evil. (This is just stupid and comes out of NO WHERE. Having Wesley being the big bad would have made a hell of a lot more sense. The only reason he didn't was because the actor said no. From the CC interviews I read she never seemed to get that choice.)
12.) The original ending for season four was a big battle between Angel and Evil Cordy. (Sooo stupid. Not everyone has to go evil Joss and what do you have against her anyway?)
13.) Though they didn't come right out and say it, the producers implied to Charisma that she should get an abortion. (Their assholes if this is true, I've heard it a lot actually.)
14.) Andy Hallett was added to the credits with nine episodes left in Season Four, because they thought the show might be cancelled. (Never heard this.)
15.) Gunn's urinating on Angel's desk in "Life of the Party" is based off an actual incident that involved crew members on BTVS. (Huh.)
16.) Michelle Trachtenberg had originally agreed to reprise her role as Dawn for "The Girl In Question," but had to cancel after the shooting schedule on her movie was changed. (Heard this too and would have rather had her than Andrew. Spike/Dawn interaction, Angel meeting her for the "first" time, etc.)
17.) The final six Angel episodes contain several hidden potshots at WB executives. (Likely.)
18.) Sarah Michelle Gellar was asked to appear as Buffy Summers in Angel's 100th episode, but had to cancel due to a family death. (The reasons vary but I'm glad we never got more pointless shipper baiting with Buffy onscreen. Thanks for ignoring Angel moving on Joss. :( )
19.) Charisma Carpenter turned down Mutant Enemy's inital offer to appear in "You're Welcome." (She loved the character but was said to be unsure about working with them again after being fired.)
20.) The original script for season five episode 17, featured Harmony getting her soul back, and the return of Lilah Morgan. (Underneath? Lilah I can believe but WTF would Harm do with a soul?)
21.) Vincent Kartheiser (Connor) had signed a multiyear deal for Angel, but was fired after bringing up concerns over how his character was being handled. (I know he and CC both voiced concerns about how their characters were handled.)
22.) David Boreanaz and Christian Kane were very uneasy over the Lindsey posing as Doyle storyline in Season Five. (Never heard this but they were both friends with Glenn.)
23.) Christian Kane was brought back to Angel as a favor to David Boreanaz. (Never heard this either.)
24.) Mercedes McNab was added to the opening credits for the final six episodes, because the show was being cancelled. (This makes no sense to me.)
25.) Nicholas Brendon had originally offered to go over Angel after BTVS ended. However, Joss Whedon turned him down, because he "wouldn't fit in." (Never heard this but if it's true. Why the hell would Xander go hang out with "Dead boys" and people he doesn't know outside of Cordelia (in a coma) and Wesley who he disliked. Also Xander never really got where they were coming from.)
26.) Had there been a season six, Seth Green was supposed to return as Oz to help Nina deal with being a werewolf. (Yep, heard this one. A love triangle with them and Angel was supposed to be planned.)
27.) Navi Rawat was scheduled to return for more episodes as Dana the psycho slayer. (Would have liked this.)
28.) There were two plans regarding Fred/Illyria. One was to have Willow seperate them, while the other was for Illyria to start taking on more of Fred's characteristics. (No more crossovers please. Also why would they help since no one trusted Angel? I heard both though.)
29.) Had Angel gone to a season six, Tom Lenk (Andrew) was going to become a regular cast member. (Nope, but no thanks. Why would he of all people been in hell? There were plans like after the fall in mind.)
30.) The contracts for Alexis Denisof (Wesley), J. August Richards (Gunn), and Andy Hallett (Lorne) had expired, and they were not going to be brought back for season six. (Bull. Wesley was said to be planned for more Fred/Illyria brooding, Gunn had the vampire plans according to Amy, and I have no idea about Andy.)
These were supposed to have been confirmed as being true (Accoring to the guy that posted this.)
1 - Also Christian and David are friends, so that couldn't have hurt with him getting the role of Lindsey.
2 - I have the original script for "Lonely Hearts" on my other puter, I'll post it soon, if anyone's interested
3 - The rumours about Doyle being killed off because Glenn Quinn and CC didn't get along weren't true, it was always planned for Doyle to die early on in the season.
5 - Amy revealed this in an interview a couple of years ago.
10 - The A/C ship was stopped for many reasons, but one major one was that fans didn't like it. (Where was this proven?)
11 - Plausible, seeing as no-one knew CC was gonna get pregnant.
16 - Michelle had agreed to do the episode, but was busy filming. I believe Joss spoke about it in an interview.
17 - "Jump the Shark" anyone?! (Happene when Connor had sex with evil Cordy/Jasmine.)
24 - From what I understand MMcN was added to the credits due to the shows cancellation and they producers thought that after 8 years in the BtVS/Angel universe it might be nice for her to put it as a 'regular' credit on her resume. (Makes more sense than the way it was phrased above.)
25 - Joss and Nic have both spoken about this in interviews. Nic was keen and so was Joss, but they couldn't find a place for him.
26 - Not sure about the validity of this one, though I have heard a lot about it, so it's more likely than a lot of other crap doing the rounds.
28 - The plan regarding Fred/Illyria was to have Illyria take on more of Fred's personality as she had slowly begun in the final episodes. This was revealed by one of the writers, but I can't remember who.
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I'm kinda glad that Christian didn't get the role of Riley. He does mention that he was uneasy about being called Doyle on one of the DVD commentaries. His character was going by the name of Sean at one point.
I probably would have liked TGIQ if it was Dawn (I always wondered where on earth she was in that episode.)
Andrew was going to join season six WTF. I never thought that there was something good to come out of ATS being cancelled. Though maybe Andrew could be in the first episode and then get eaten. i would of loved to see that. Xander going to ATS makes absolutely no sense. i honestly thought Xanders' story line finished season five. What was he going to do but stand around insulting everyone and maybe fix things. Seriously there are enough men on ATS. I would have loved for Dana to come back if there was going to be a season six.
I'm having horrible visions of what 'You're Welcome' would have been like if Buffy showed up. i doubt Cordelia would of been in it. Gosh forty odd minutes of Buffy pouting and most likely beating up on Spike, before she and Angel reaffirm their TRUE LOVE. You are not alone in not wanting a crossover. (Unless it was going to be Faith, or maybe Dawn or Riley so Spike can beat the crap out of him:)).
As for 9) I always believed that was the reason he said Buffy in Awakening.
I do not think that they stopped the Angel/Cordy ship being stopped because it was unpopular with fans. Alot of ships were unpopular with fans. A lot of fans were very vocal about their dislike of certain ships. This is Joss we are talking about, He is forever saying that he does what is needed rather than what is wanted.
30 is not true, I heard the only reason they killed Wes was because the show was cancelled, otherwise he would still be alive. Anyway Joss loves Alexis so i doubt he would get rid of him. I heard the rumour that Gunn was going to be turned.
I always think about how awful the episode would have been if Buffy was on. The whole point of the show, outside the redemption angle, was that Buffy is not a part of it. I don't think we would have had b/a 4 ever but more shipper baiting.
Buffy would either do a complete turn over from the "we don't trust you" to redeem herself in the eyes of the fans and make Giles/Andrew look like asses or looked down at them for the choices they made. Cordelia would not have been mentioned of course. :(
I know, hear about Butsu? He KNOWS that was going to piss off people.
What i am finding most interesting about people's reactions to Butsu is that more people seem to be upset about Buffy using someone again than Buffy having sex with a woman.
Depends on where you go. I've heard that there were posts saying that "Buffy isn't a f****!" and others that say it's out of character. One of the bangels that post on both comic boards was almost banned at Whedonesque. But on Spangel/Spuffy boards I've noticed people getting more upset about the using thing. It's like she learned nothing from the treatment of Spike.
Err. Hee! Sorry, a nerve, that one. I can't say I miss her character much (and am avoiding the Buffy comics because of it, though I'm reading ATF). I LOVE Cordy though and I've only seen parts of her (all of her on Buffy, about half on Angel). I just don't understand why the writers would abuse Cordelia's character so much, and then turn Buffy into this whiny, repetitive, overdone action figure. I mean, there's no reason Buffy can't grow. I loved her early episodes, but after a while, the same mistakes over and over again... yeah, it just gets boring. And old. And irritating.
/rant. ^^;
Think about what happened to Cordelias' character. She was the main lady on the show (which Joss now claims she never was nor ever an important character), and she is the only character to ever get raped onscreen via Jasmine yet no one even mentions it outside one line Angel says in Shells.
I really dislike Buffy, she hasn't grown up, she thinks everything is about her, and she always misleads her boyfriends/exs. Chosen was a slap in the face to Cordelia, Cangel, Spike and ATS fans. Angel should have been depressed after losing everything but he lies acting more happy to see Buffy than he ever had before. He was supposed to tell Buffy that he loved Cordelia and had a son. Joss claims that he took it out because none of the new viewers would know who they were (like they would know Angel either.) He caved for those bangels who kept getting ads, threatening cast memebers and writers of other ships.
Buffy acted the same way when Riley came back needing him to love her too, so no I don't take Chosen seriously. Angel I think just needed to feel like a hero after the horror in L.A. and found Spike had "replaced" him. Joss also said that b/a was never supposed to be "the one" and he had no more ideas for them in season 3. He wavers to keep the shippers now.
I think Cordelia turned into a far stronger woman than Buffy could hope to be. If you've heard about the spoilers about the BTVS comics you'd see more clearly (well even before you would I guess) that there is no contest. As much as I love ATS it was never the same to me with out Cordelia. Yes I'm a Cangel as well as a Spangel (never shipped bangel and don't want more spuffy either.) I liked Cordys' relationship with Angel unlike b/a, she trusted him, they had a much stronger relationship but the writers prompt forget about her and instead show the gang only mourning Fred.
Old mistakes: YES! I am so sick of her going over the same issues she has had for nine or ten years. Grow up girl! Cordelia got over her mission of being a seer, Faith is working on being a good slayer and even Angel has gotten over his social issues to have friends. You're not alone, better off than most. Sheesh.
END LONG RANT/
I'm really ashamed of him for abusing Cordy like that, and the actress! Who in their right minds fires a woman because she got pregnant?! You just work with it! I mean, it gave a nice twist to the series, didn't it? Not the *best* twist, but it was a twist, and if they were real writers (like Joss claims to be), they would've just worked with it! Though I love s5 as a Spike fan, even I can see where that's not only degrading to his character, but hers as well. Gah!
Cordy was actually raped, then? I never saw that either. Doh! I haven't seen a lot of ATS season 4 and parts of 3, but I really want get the boxed set, so maybe I'll tackle that someday. ^^ It sounds like they didn't make a big deal of it if she was raped, which is just wrong, considering Mary Sue Buffy was only attempted after almost two full seasons of non-stop abuse, and we *never* heard the end of it. Doh!!
Well, that explains a lot. I wish I could watch ATS all over again to see this stuff! Hee! It's just interesting, because I heard an interview with Joss before where he said the big ups told him to bring Spike over to ATS in season 5, and he said, "That's okay, we like Spike," and said absolutely nothing about Cordy. Makes you wonder what he really has against her, you know? (I still wish that wasn't the reason he came, because I *hate* all the idiot!Spike running around. You mentioned "going-to-bang-Harm-as-soon-as-I'm-solid"
Cordys' plotline was that she was becoming a better person thanks to Doyle, Angel and the others. She kept the visions that were killing her because she wanted to help Angel, the people and make amends for how she was in Sunnydale. As for the rape: Jasmine uses her body to seduce Connor who Cordy viewed as a son (she says in YW that she saw everything up until the coma) Jasmine uses Cordys' body against her will to have sex with Connor.
She kills people in the body and Cordy never wakes up. She never gets to recover, she dies unmourned onscreen and barely mentioned. That would be like Xander or Willow dying in BTVS and Buffy only mentioning them twice.
See the writers talked about who could have been the father of the baby and they were VERY dim about it. Angel was a no go since they didn't want another impossible baby after Connor, Wes/Gunn were in a triangle with Fred, so that left Connor? What about the guy she slept with, Groo? If they didn't want another baby on the show Cordy could have lost it or given it up.
What gets me VERY angry about this is that we always hear about Buffy almost being raped by Spike (people forget about Xander I guess) but NEVER have I seen anyone mention the fact that Cordy was actually raped. I tried to bring it up a couple times but everyone likes to ignore it. Since it actually happened to her I'd rather we focus on her character recovering instead of dying as a victim of said rapist.
I was under the impression that the look in ATF was just a cover. I'm starting to think that he's not having sex with any of these woman who were going to kill him, why else would he be trying to catch looks at Illyria bathing? (I have issues with that because I do not believe for a moment that Spike would leer at Freds' body. He had issues with the Buffybot after Buffy died after all.)
You know I don't know what to root for. I want Cordy back but at the same time I fear what their do with her character. Will they act like Cordelia/Angel never happened to make the b/a fans happy? Will they push her with Groo again? Spike? (I love Spike but I do not want people saying that he just goes after the women Angel was with.) The truth is I don't trust Joss with her. :(
As for Spike/Harm, I admit, I love the pairing for different reasons, but I was not happy with the way they went about it in s5. Spike was very immature and OOC, and Harmony... well, I guess she *did* call it quits, which was awesome for her. But still, I'd much rather Spike hadn't done it at all, and then Spike and Harm could've bonded some *other* way, especially if they decided to keep ignoring the Spangel
subtext and bring in the Nina. Harm isn't exactly Angel, no, not even Drucilla really, but I do think that Harm was also kind of growing as a character in s5 (if very subtly), and she had some vague potential. She'd certainly be better than Buffy--Harm wasn't much for the punching-bag!Spike, much as she irritated him. Hee!And, yeah, the whole joking about his mother to Wesley was NOT cool. It's just waaay too much of a taboo topic for him, you know?
As for Cordy, I remember hearing of that rape before, now. I just never saw it on screen. Doh! But yeah, I don't understand why Cordy is ignored so much with that, if Buffy (who is, of course, much, much stronger physically than Cordy and had fought off Spike (who stopped), before it got very far) just went on and on and *on* with it. But yeah, they forget about Xander too (and, hello, so does Xander), not mention that Buffy actually *did* kind of rape Spike, albeit in a "humorous" way--I can't remember what scene it was, maybe when she was invisible, or some other time, but I know that Spike said "no" and Buffy just went at it anyway. There was funny sex music playing and everything--but that didn't change the fact that Buffy ignored *his* no and used him anyway. That's as much as rape too, isn't it? And this isn't even going into the fact that Spike was so far abused and smashed around by the time he got to the Seeing Red scene, that even *I* could understand why he did it. Doh!
You're right, the thing with Cordy in ATF *does* make me nervous now, but still, it'd be nice to see some sort of conclusion to her (I want to believe that Joss has grown up by now, but if the Buffy comics are anything to go by, maybe not). That said, I don't want Fred back either--I like Illyria the way she is (well, not so much ATF, but I do), and they really mourned Fred to death already. Doesn't leave very many options, does it? *whines*
Sorry but I'm not a fan of Harm. I really didn't see the point of Harms' Way when she was trying to be part of the team and then betrays them anyway like Angel knew she would. *shrugs*
I suppose that people don't think too much about Cordy being controlled. Cordy never actually had a chance to talk about it and decided to focus on helping Angel. Xander didn't forget he just pretended he did so he wouldn't have to face the issues (Giles knew he remembered.)
It does piss me off that some characters have these serious issues brushed aside while others preach yet they never had it as bad as those who are ignored. I won't excuse what Spike almost did but I do think Buffy gives ALL her boyfriends' exes mixed signals. I mean the girl pretty much jumps at any of them as soon as they come around.
Sadly I do not have much faith in Joss. As for the Fred stuff I'll be commenting my thoughts on that else where.
I really didn't see the point of Harms' Way when she was trying to be part of the team and then betrays them anyway like Angel knew she would. *shrugs*
Hee! I usually put that off as crack writing. I've been involved in a fandom for years based off a horrible anime (Gundam Wing), and I'm so used to writing off canon now, I guess it's a bad habit in other fandoms now too. xD
Erm, which reminds me! I so remember the hyena thing (I love that ep), I just hate how Xander never dealt with it (which again, all the Scoobies tend to do, I guess). I like Xander, I think he had *some* awesomeness in the beginning and in maybe spots toward the middle, but he sort of turned into a male Buffy in someways, with the mixed signals and constant issues (poor Anya!). Of course, I didn't really like Xander because he was The Heart, moreso just because he was the fumbling Normal Guy. Hee! Well, that, and I've done contracting and I think carpenters are hot. xDD
Erm. Hee! *goes now*